進(jìn)入維度之門，打開心靈密碼，享受智慧人生

Here’s an excerpt from an interview of Sadhguru, as it appeared in the Times of India on 30 May 2016.

以下是在一場與薩古魯訪談的摘錄，刊登于2016年5月30日的印度《時(shí)代》雜志。

“This happened one day. I sat down somewhere, eyes closed, for about 25-30 minutes. When I opened my eyes there was a crowd around me. Somebody wanted to know his future; somebody wanted to know when his daughter will get married… All kinds of rubbish. I thought, where did they all come from? Then they told me, ‘You’ve been sitting here for 13 days!’ When I tried to open my legs, my knees were all locked up. It took two hours of massaging and hot water and what not, to open my legs. I was sitting in the same spot for 13 days, but in my experience it was only 25-30 minutes, because the further away from the body you move, the lesser hold time will have on you. Samayadipathi, we call such a person. One who has in some way transcended time. Once you’ve mastered time, then time is of no consequence to you…” says Sadhguru.

“有一天，我坐在一個(gè)地方，閉著眼睛，大約25-30分鐘。當(dāng)我睜開眼睛的時(shí)候，發(fā)現(xiàn)很多人圍繞著我。有人想要知道他的未來；有人想要知道他的女兒什么時(shí)候結(jié)婚…各種無聊的事。我疑惑，他們都是從哪里來的？接著他們告訴我，“你已經(jīng)在這里坐了13天！”當(dāng)我嘗試松開我的腿，但我的膝蓋都被鎖住了?；藘蓚€(gè)小時(shí)又按摩又敷熱水才松開我的腿。我在同一個(gè)地方坐了13天，但在我的體驗(yàn)里它只有25-30分鐘，因?yàn)楫?dāng)你離身體越遠(yuǎn)時(shí)，時(shí)間對你的控制就越少。三瑪雅迪帕迪（Samayadipathi）,我們這樣稱那種人。在某種程度上超越時(shí)間的人。一旦你掌控了時(shí)間，時(shí)間對你將不會有任何意義…”薩古魯說。

Sounds fantastic. But what’s even more fantastic is when he tells you, “This is not some feat; anyone can reach this stage of mastery.” Really? Anyone? “Yes…,” he says, with a chuckle, that’s at once a challenge and an invitation, prompting you to ask him the nextquestion, and the next, and the next…

Over an hour-long conversation filled with his trademark wit and wisdom, Sadhguru reveals some life hacks, unravels some mysteries and lays bare some harsh truths about life the way we live it. Excerpts.

聽起來很棒。但更棒的是當(dāng)他告訴你，“這不是什么非凡的能力；任何人都能到達(dá)這個(gè)境界?！闭娴模咳魏稳?？“是的…”他說，伴隨著咯咯的笑聲，那是一個(gè)挑戰(zhàn)同時(shí)也是一個(gè)邀請，帶動著你去問他下一個(gè)問題，再下一個(gè)，再下一個(gè)…

超過一個(gè)小時(shí)的談話里充滿著他標(biāo)志性的幽默和智慧，薩古魯揭示了一些生活竅門，解開了一些謎團(tuán)并揭露了一些關(guān)于我們生活方式的殘酷真相。摘錄。 

Q: So, we’re curious now. How do you transcend time?

問：我們現(xiàn)在好奇了。您如何超越時(shí)間？

Sadhguru: You don’t try to transcend time. Once you transcend your physical nature, you naturally transcend time. How do people keep time within themselves? It is only through the body. How do theyknow it is afternoon? They ate their breakfast, now it’s time for lunch — from meal to meal, your body keeps time. From one bladder-full to the next bladder-full, you are keeping time. You run out of energy and you have to sleep — it is a way of keeping time.

薩古魯：你不要嘗試著超越時(shí)間。一旦你超越了你的物質(zhì)本性，你自然而然會超越了時(shí)間。人們是如何計(jì)時(shí)的？只有通過身體。他們?nèi)绾沃朗窍挛?？他們吃過了早餐，現(xiàn)在是午餐的時(shí)間– 從一頓飯到下一頓飯，你的身體記著時(shí)間。從一個(gè)膀胱充盈到下一個(gè)膀胱充盈，你記著時(shí)間。你用完了能量你必須要睡覺– 這是計(jì)時(shí)的一種方式。 

If I make you sit here for three hours, your body will want to move. Suppose you had no body, and I made you sit here for 10,000 years, what’s the problem? It is the body that is giving you a sense of “time”. When you look at time on the clock, one circle means an hour.The moon does one circle around the earth, it’s a month. The earth goes around the sun, it becomes a year. Everything is going around in cycles, because that’s the nature.

如果我讓你坐在這里三個(gè)小時(shí)，你的身體會想要?jiǎng)?。假設(shè)你沒有身體，我讓你坐在這里一萬年，又有什么問題呢？是身體正在給你一種“時(shí)間”感。你看鐘表里的時(shí)間，一個(gè)循環(huán)代表一個(gè)小時(shí)。月球圍繞地球一個(gè)循環(huán)，那是一個(gè)月。地球圍繞太陽轉(zhuǎn)，那是一年。一切都循環(huán)運(yùn)動著，大自然就是如此。

Q: And how do you transcend the physical nature?

問：那要如何超越物質(zhì)本性？

Sadhguru: The entire yogic science is about this: How to align your system in line with the cosmic system. Because all the cycles of your body have something to do with the bigger cycles of existence — the solar system, the universe. If it is aligned, your sense of body becomes minimal and you can use your body in any way you want. If your sense of body is overpowering, it becomes compulsive in nature. It makes you keep doing the same thing. If you don’t do that one thing, it will keep torturing you.

薩古魯：整個(gè)瑜伽科學(xué)就是關(guān)于這個(gè)：如何使你的系統(tǒng)與宇宙系統(tǒng)一致。因?yàn)槟闵眢w的所有循環(huán)都與存在的循環(huán)都有所聯(lián)系– 太陽系、宇宙。如果它得到校準(zhǔn)對齊，你的身體感會變到最低，你可以以任何你想要的方式運(yùn)用你的身體。如果你的身體感過強(qiáng)，它會變得有強(qiáng)迫性。它會使你一直重復(fù)同樣的事。如果你不做那一件事，它會不斷折磨你。 

How deeply you identify with the physical, that’s how much you are available to time. People who do physical things are always looking at the watch. Time just won’t pass for them. If someone gets a little intellectual and they start reading a book, suddenly they won’t know time. Hours pass by, just like that. If you go beyond the intellectual and get meditative, time simply slips away.

你的物質(zhì)認(rèn)同有多深，你受控于時(shí)間的程度就會有多深。那些做體力活的人總是看手表。對他們來說時(shí)間動都不會動。如果一個(gè)人開始動腦，他們開始讀一本書，突然之間他們不知道時(shí)間的存在。幾個(gè)小時(shí)就那樣過去了。如果你超越了智力而變得富于冥想，時(shí)間就會就那樣溜走。

My days are such that if I sit down in a program, for the next 10-12 hours I am sitting in the same place. Everybody else takes bathroom breaks, drink breaks, but I sit there all the time. It’s not about performing some feat. It is just that the body doesn’t have the same power over you. You are able to use the body, the body is not able to use you. That’s a good way to be.

如果我在一個(gè)課程里坐下，接下來的10-12個(gè)小時(shí)我會一直坐在同樣的地方。其他人在中間去上廁所，喝水，但我會一直坐在那里。這不是在顯示某種技能。只是你不被身體左右。你能運(yùn)用你的身體，而身體不能左右你。那是一個(gè)好的存在方式。

Q: Is that why you advocate yoga as such a big part of spirituality?

問題：那就是為什么您將瑜伽宣傳為靈性的重要部分的原因嗎？

Sadhguru: Your physical body is not a simple thing. It’s a tremendous machine. If you don’t keep it in full-alert mode, you will not experience life in a very profound way.

薩古魯：你的物質(zhì)身體不是一件簡單的東西。它是一件驚人的機(jī)器。如果你不把它保持在高度警覺的模式，你不會以十分深刻的方式體驗(yàn)生命。

I was in Tirupati recently when a school bus stopped in front of my car. I noticed five out of ten kids were overweight. A school-going child today looks terribly bored. A ten-year-old has seen the whole cosmos on the phone screen – he thinks he knows it all. What are these kids going to do in life? They may go on to get a job and earn some money– but is that it? They can’t climb a tree, run, enjoy themselves or dance. Frombored kids they naturally become bored adults. Then they will want something to “hit” them, so they will go for drink and drugs. Nothing else shakes them, so they put chemicals in their system.

最近我在蒂魯伯蒂(Tirupati)，當(dāng)一輛校車在我車子前面停下來時(shí)，我注意到十個(gè)小孩里面有五個(gè)是肥胖的?，F(xiàn)在還在上學(xué)的小孩就開始感到無聊透了。一個(gè)十歲的小孩在手機(jī)熒屏上見識過了整個(gè)宇宙– 他認(rèn)為他了解所有東西。這些孩子長大后會做什么事情？他們也許會得到一個(gè)工作賺一些錢 – 但就是那樣嗎？他們無法爬一棵樹，奔跑，享受他們自己或舞蹈。從無聊的小孩他們自然地成長為無聊的大人。然后他們會想要某些東西來“沖擊”他們，因此他們會去喝酒吸毒。其他沒有東西能刺激他們，所以他們往他們的系統(tǒng)里放入化學(xué)物質(zhì)。

Q: Are there chemical-free ways to “shake” ourselves up, then?

那，有其他的可以“刺激”我們的有機(jī)方式嗎？

Sadhguru: I can show you millions of people who just close their eyes, and tears of ecstasy flow down their cheeks – you just need to be in touch with yourself. Some may look at this issue of alcohol and drugs moralistically, but the essence of it is simply this — people are looking for a bigger experience of life. Everyone wants a larger slice of life. If you don’t show them any other way, they will hit the bottle. After sometime, the bottle won’t work and they will go for stronger alternatives. It may put holes in your brain but it doesn’t matter because people still want to experience something more –even if it kills them. The human longing to experience something more is so strong!

薩古魯：我可以給你展示數(shù)百萬的人，他們只要閉上眼睛，狂喜的眼淚就從臉頰上滑落 – 你只是需要跟你自己建立連接。有些人會從道德角度來看待飲酒和吸毒的事情，但根本上只是因?yàn)槿藗冊谧穼ぶ锔蟮捏w驗(yàn)。每個(gè)人都想要更大的生命體驗(yàn)。如果你不提供給他們其他方式，他們會酗酒。過了一段時(shí)間，酒精不再起作用了，他們會用更強(qiáng)的代替物。它可能會在大腦上穿洞，但這無所謂因?yàn)槿藗兙褪窍胍w驗(yàn)更多的東西– 即便那會殺了他們。人類想要體驗(yàn)更多東西的渴望是如此之強(qiáng)！

Q: So, is spirituality the answer to that longing?

問題：那么，靈性是對那渴望的答案嗎？

Sadhguru: Today, human intellect is sparking like never before. More people are thinking for themselves than ever before inthe history of humanity. Today, even if God spoke to you, and if he did not make logical sense, you wouldn’t buy it. There was a time when people would. So,in many ways, the heavens are crumbling. Right now it may be happening to individuals, but gradually it will become a widespread phenomenon.

薩古魯：如今人類智力前所未有的閃耀。比起過去的人類歷史，如今更多的人都在為自己考慮?，F(xiàn)在即便是上帝跟你講話，如果他在邏輯上說不通，你都不會領(lǐng)受。曾經(jīng)有段時(shí)間人們會的。因此，從很多方面來講，天堂正在崩塌?，F(xiàn)在它可能發(fā)生在個(gè)人身上，但逐漸地它會變成一個(gè)廣泛的現(xiàn)象。

I estimate, in another 80-100 years’ time, the present form of organized religion will go down. Heavens of the past made sense when people were living in such abject conditions. Today we are living lives better than the heavens, so people will tell you, “I don’t want to go to heaven. This is good.” But the human being’s aspiration to experience something more will not go away. If we as a generation of people do not strive to bring about a powerful inner experience for every human being, ninety percent of the population will move towards drink and drug – and you can’t stop it.

我估計(jì)，再過80-100年，當(dāng)今這種有組織的宗教形式將會衰落。過去的天堂說得通那是因?yàn)槿藗兪腔钤谀敲床恍业沫h(huán)境里。今天我們活得比天堂還要好，因此人們會告訴你，“我不要去天堂，這里很好?！钡藗兿胍w驗(yàn)更多東西的渴望不會消失。如果我們作為一代人沒有努力把一個(gè)強(qiáng)大的內(nèi)在體驗(yàn)帶給每一個(gè)人，百分之九十的人口會通往飲酒和吸毒 – 你無法阻止它。

Before the entire population turns back this incredible work of evolution – which brought you from the level of an amoeba to such a level of intelligence and capability – a scientifically relevant spiritual process must happen to the world.

在整個(gè)人類從這個(gè)不可思議的進(jìn)化中退回之前 – 它曾把你從變形蟲的等級帶到擁有如此程度的智力和能力– 一個(gè)科學(xué)性的靈性進(jìn)程必須發(fā)生在這個(gè)世界上。

Q: What if one is an atheist and doesn’t believe in anything in particular?

問題：那么一個(gè)不相信任何東西的無神論者又會怎么樣呢？

Sadhguru: Atheists and theists are not two different kinds of people. Both believe something that they do not know. Both have neither the courage nor commitment to seek what is true. They want to assume something. Depending upon what kind of culture they have been brought up in, one seems like a positive assumption, the other seems negative. They don’t know reality in anyway.

薩古魯：無神論者和有神論者不是兩種不同的人。兩者都是在相信他們并不知道的東西。兩者都沒有勇氣和決心去尋找真理。他們只是在假設(shè)。取決于他們在哪一種文化里被帶大，一個(gè)看上去像積極的假設(shè)，另一個(gè)看上去像是消極的。他們都不知道實(shí)相。

Instead of being a theist or an atheist, if you are straight enough to tell yourself, “What I know, I know,what I do not know, I do not know,” the very nature of human existence is such that you will want to know, you will strive to know, you will seek to know –and you will find it.

與其成為一個(gè)有神論者或一個(gè)無神論者，如果你足夠坦白地告訴你自己“我知道就是知道，不知道就是不知道，”人類存在的本性是—你會想要知道，你會努力去知道，你會去尋求答案– 然后你會找到它。

Q: However, our generation’s biggest problems are still the everyday realities — stress at work, the promotion that never comes, the horrible boss!

問題：不管怎樣，我們這一代人最大的問題還是每日的現(xiàn)實(shí)– 工作的壓力，永遠(yuǎn)不會來臨的升職，恐怖的老板！

Sadhguru: I was in Mumbai some time ago. Someone who holds a very important job there met me and said, “Sadhguru, I can’t take this anymore. This boss of mine makes my life a living hell.” I said, “May you be fired.” He panicked: “Sadhguru, what are you saying.” I told him, “Why are suffering your job? May you be fired. Go walk on the beach!” If you are in a job, you are miserable. Even if you are fired, you are miserable!

薩古魯：前一段時(shí)間我在孟買。有一個(gè)有著重要崗位的人見我，說，“薩古魯，我不能再忍受了。我的老板把我的生活變成活生生的地獄?！蔽艺f，“但愿你被解雇?！彼只帕耍骸八_古魯，你在說什么?！蔽腋嬖V他，“為什么你要被你的工作折磨？但愿你被解雇。去海灘上走走！”如果你在工作，你很悲慘。即便你被解雇，你還是很悲慘！

This is something we should decide. Do you want to make a living, or do you want to make a life out of this? When a worm, an insect and a bird are able to do it so easily, earning a living with such a big brain is not a big thing. The only problem is you want to make a living like someone else. You want to make as much money as someone else, so you get into a job. You want to drive what someone else is driving, so you do some business. You want to live in a house like someone else’s, so you get into all this mess. You grow up learning to do things for all the wrong reasons. You are not doing what you really want to do.

這是我們應(yīng)該決定的事情。你想要賺取生計(jì)，還是你想要從中創(chuàng)造生命？一只幼蟲，一只昆蟲和一只鳥也能輕而易舉地養(yǎng)活自己，所以賺取生計(jì)對擁有如此大頭腦的人來說不是一件大事。唯一的問題是你想要像別人那樣。你想要賺到別人賺到的錢，因此你進(jìn)入一個(gè)工作。你想要開別人開的車，因此你做點(diǎn)生意。你想要住在像別人住的房子里，因此你將自己卷入各種問題中。你長大所學(xué)的東西，都是因?yàn)殄e(cuò)誤的理由。你不是在做你真正想做的事情。

When I say “really want to do”, I don’t mean it as a whim. If you are doing what you really care for, if you see what you are doing as an important contribution to the world, you will do it joyfully. There will be no such thing as stress. But if you do something that you don’t care for because of something you may get, I don’t want to use the word, but in a way, you have sold yourself.

當(dāng)我說“真正想做的”，我不是在指心血來潮。如果你在做你真正在乎的事情，如果你看到你在做的事情是對世界一個(gè)重要的貢獻(xiàn)，你會帶著喜悅?cè)プ觥Ｄ菈焊筒粫袎毫@回事。但是如果你只是為了得到什么而去做你不喜歡的事，那—— 我不想用那個(gè)詞，但某種程度上，你出賣了自己。--

Q: But “make it big” has been the driving force of this generation. We call it aspiration.No one ever told us it’s a bad thing.

問題：但“干大事”一直以來都是這一代人的驅(qū)動力。我們叫它抱負(fù)。沒有人曾告訴我們它是一件壞事。

Sadhguru: The most important thing about you right now is that you are alive. If you don’t not know how to enjoy the largest phenomena that is happening here, which is life, how will you enjoy anything else? If you are really enjoying it, then everything else is  incidental, not the deciding factor. I may ride a car today, tomorrow if I have a bicycle, I will ride it – what’s the big deal? You have not found the true worth for the life that you are, so you are trying to add value to all kinds of things that are of no value.

薩古魯：對于你，當(dāng)下最重要的事情是你還活著。如果你不懂得如何享受這里正在發(fā)生的最大的事情，也就是生命，你要如何能享受其他東西？如果你真的享受它，那其他每件事都是小事，不是決定因素。我今天也許開著一輛車，明天我也許有一輛腳踏車，我會騎它– 有什么大不了？你沒有找到你生命真正的價(jià)值，因此你嘗試著對那些沒有價(jià)值的東西增添價(jià)值。

My schedule goes over twenty hours a day. If I get to sleep on the same bed twice it is a luxury. Do I look stressed to you? Will I die of tension? Never! I may die of exhaustion but I will not die of boredom, for sure. That’s a horrible way to die. If you want to be alive to life, you shouldn’t be thinking about what you can extract from it — you should see how to participate in it.

我每天運(yùn)作二十小時(shí)。如果我在同一張床上能睡上兩次就是個(gè)奢侈了。你看我看上去像有壓力嗎？我會不會因?yàn)閴毫^大而死？永遠(yuǎn)不會！我也許會因?yàn)槠诙赖也粫驗(yàn)闊o聊而死，那是肯定的。那是種恐怖的死亡方式。如果你想要對生命保持活生生的，你不應(yīng)該去想你能從中榨取什么– 你應(yīng)該看看你要如何參與到其中。

Q: Well, we are alive to life – on Fridays! :)

問題：恩，我們是活生生的呀– 每個(gè)星期五！:）

Sadhguru: Thank god it’s Friday, is it? People ask me a lot about work-life balance. I say, if work is not life, don’t do it.I don’t have a weekend – I work seven days a week, 365 days. Do I look like I need a vacation? If you really do what you care for, your whole life is a vacation. So make your life a vacation by creating what you care for.

薩古魯：謝天謝地今天是星期五，不是嗎？人們問我很多關(guān)于工作和生活如何平衡。我說，如果你的工作不是生活，那就別干了。我沒有周末– 我一年365天一周七天都在工作。我看上去像是需要一個(gè)假期的人嗎？如果你在做你在乎的事情，你整個(gè)生命都會是一個(gè)假期。因此去創(chuàng)造你真正在乎的吧，把你整個(gè)生命變成假期。

Life is a purpose in itself. The bigquestion is, how alive are you? When you were five, how alive were you? Today,how alive are you? Keep acount at least once a day! If you don’t keep accounts of this, the business of your life will go into the red. At least before you go to bed, just look: today have you been a better human being than you were yesterday.By “better” I don’t mean whether you did something useful or helped someone. I am not talking about morally better. As a life, are you a little more joyful.

生命的意義就是生命本身。一個(gè)重要的問題是，你是多有活力的？當(dāng)你五歲的時(shí)候？你多么有活力？今天，你多有活力？每天至少記著算一次！如果你不記一下賬，你生命的賬本將會變成赤字。至少在你上床之前看看：今天你有成為比昨天更好的人類嗎？“更好”我不是指你是否做某件有用的事或幫助某個(gè)人。我不是在講道德意義上的更好。作為一個(gè)生命，你是否變得更喜悅了一點(diǎn)。

Joy is an insurance. When you are joyful, you are wonderful to everyone. You are keeping count of your stupid money. Why don’t you keep a count of your life? Your money has become more important than life!

喜悅是一個(gè)保險(xiǎn)。當(dāng)你喜悅時(shí)，你對每個(gè)人來說都是很美妙的。你為你那愚蠢的錢記賬。為什么不為你的生命記賬？你的錢變得比生命還重要！

Q: What’s the solution, then?

問題：那，解決方案是什么？

Sadhguru: Turn inward for your wellbeing, not outward. If you were ecstatic by nature, what would you do? You would simply do whatever is needed. Right now, what do you do in pursuit of your happiness? You do whatever you think will bring you that happiness. So, reversing the human experience from trying to squeeze the juice out of the world, to enhancing this life in such a way that this is full of juice by itself — that’s the solution.

薩古魯：為你的幸福轉(zhuǎn)向內(nèi)在，不是外在。如果你的本性是狂喜的，你會做什么？你會去做任何需要做的事?，F(xiàn)在，你為了追求幸福做了什么？你做任何你認(rèn)為會帶給你幸福的東西。因此，轉(zhuǎn)變?nèi)祟愺w驗(yàn)，從試圖榨取世界的汁液轉(zhuǎn)變?yōu)樘嵘@個(gè)生命使之本身充滿著汁液– 這就是解決方案。

原文鏈接

http://isha./blog/yoga-meditation/demystifying-yoga/religion-as-we-know-it-will-go-down-in-100-years/